Sorry for the lack of respnses.

The car is comming togther nicely. I placed a pretty lg order with Jim at HeartBeat. I decided to have the orig GM Black door pnels dyed vs. the repro. I'm not satisfied the repro's so if any body needs a set of repro Al Knoch panels, make me an offer. Say 500 plus shipping? Any how all interior should be ready to be picked up this weekend. I'll post pics when they get picked up.

Tom,
Have you seen the car in person yet?
sse

Back seat in.

I decided to keep the fold down seat in it for now.

door panels

seat frames chem dipped prior to being refinished

Nice work Tom. Love the fold down seat. Impressive.

quote:

Originally posted by Z11Weaver:
Sorry for the lack of respnses.

The car is comming togther nicely. I placed a pretty lg order with Jim at HeartBeat. I decided to have the orig GM Black door pnels dyed vs. the repro. I'm not satisfied the repro's so if any body needs a set of repro Al Knoch panels, make me an offer. Say 500 plus shipping? Any how all interior should be ready to be picked up this weekend. I'll post pics when they get picked up.

Hey Tom,
What didn't you like about the Al Knoch door panels? I heard Al Knoch products were supposed to be pretty good and the closest thing to an original. Just curious! Nice pics Tom! Can't wait to see some pictures.

Tom M’s problems are visiting #3 now. Leaks, leaks leaks. The engine was finally fired last night but the trans had to be pulled because of bad front seal. During the 20 minute break-in, the glide went through two qts of fluid. The rear seal on the engine has a pretty good leak as well. More so now, since being fired up.
The next dilemma is the headlights. They open great, but they won't close. All relays are new, (twice over). The wiring is dead on. Could it be bad diodes???

I realize it's a longshot, but in the RELAY CONTROL part of the headlight wiring the current path to ground for the R2/R3 relay coils is through the headlights, so you have to have at least one functioning headlight hooked up. And yes a blown diode (there is only one)would also keep R2 and R3 from energizing to close the doors. I've copied the "neither door closes" section of the troubleshooting guide, but I find it a little confusing. Just in case stupid question, you do realize that ignition switch must be "on" for doors to close right? I am an electronic tech so I can elaborate if you'd like.
________________________________________________
If neither door closes when lights are turned off:
Check for voltage at the green wire terminal on relay R1 (use test lamp to ground). Note: Ignition switch must be "ON" to energize system and the engine should be running during checking operation.

A. If there is voltage at green terminal, check for voltage further along the harness towards the motors. If there is no voltage at the brown wire terminal of relay R2, then R2 and R3 (they are wired in parallel) are not actuated. Check for 12 volts' across the two-terminal connectors of both relays (use one test light lead at each terminal of connector).
1. If voltage is present, replace R2.
2. lf no voltage, check wiring back to the ignition switch making sure that the diode is not open or in backwards.

B. If voltage is pulsating, due to action of circuit breaker, then R2 has pulled in but R3 has not. Check for 12 volts across the two-terminal connector of R3 (one test light lead at each terminal of connector). If voltage is present, replace R3. If no voltage, check wiring.

C. If there is no voltage at green wire terminal of relay R1 (use test light to ground), check for voltage at orange wire terminal of R1.
a. If voltage is present, replace R1.
b. If voltage is not present, check for open circuit breaker or wiring.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MLakin,

Just found this site, very helpful in identifing the relays and wire positions.

http://www.retro-electro.net/FAQ.html

This very cool! Mine have opened for severals years but dont close.They used to.One year (about 4 ago) they closed fine the entire day(on and off several times that day)have not shut since!Often I can here a relay click out in the fender as I drive,seems like a short but can not reproduce with the car sitting still.Never pops a fuse!Been wanting to dig into this.Any ideas from any of you with info Mike has found and anything else would be a help!
Da weave

I just had another thought(ya I know)I dont think my relays "click" when the light are on!Not positive of that but I did make a 2 hour night drive with it last week and dont remember hearing them.Any other ideas?

quote:

Any other ideas?

Weave,
Every time I have had a problem with the lights on my 67 black car, it has always been a ground issue. Have had to clean and make new ground connections about every 5 years. That's where I would start with yours.

Weaves I see a few possibilities. Motors are wired in parallel so if both do the same thing most likely NOT associated with each motors individual limit switches (See #3 below though). You say they open fine so it's not a circuit breaker issue.

Relay 2 and 3 energize (click) whenever the ignition is on and the headlights off. If you turn on the headlights with ignition on, relay 1 energizes and relay 2 and 3 de-energize. (NC/NO normally open, normally closed contacts refer to un-energized relay coil, when energized the NC opens and the NO closes).

The wiring is seperated into two parts, RELAY CONTROL and DOOR MOTOR POWER.

IGNITION ON HEADLIGHTS OFF, doors fail to close:

1. RELAY CONTROL
A.Poor/intermittant connection anywhere between and including the ignition switch, the brown wire/diode assembly from ign. sw. to underdash connector, brown wire from under dash conn. thru firewall to relay 2 and 3(right side if you look at the pictures in the retro-electic link above). Should be around 12 volts on brown wire.

B. Bad energizing coil in relay 2. (Da Weave, since yours work on occasion most likely not your problem).

2. DOOR MOTOR POWER
A. Faulty NC (normally closed) contact on relay 1, no power in green wire from relay 1 NC to relay 2 C (common) connection.

B. Faulty NO (normally open) contact on relay 2, no power on brown wires out to limit switches.

C. Faulty NO contact on relay 3, no path to ground for dark blue wire from motor limit switches.

D. Bad ground to relay 3 common contact, black wires from relay 3 to ground bad connection.

3. There is a remote possibility that a bad ground connection on BOTH radiator support limit switches could cause them to not get started. Those connections are required to get the motors going, but once moved off the limit switches wiring/relay contacts take over. With ignition on and headlights off, if door functions/closes after you manually push it off limit switch both sides have a poor ground connection.

NOTE: The above only true with Ing. on headlights off, with headlights on power polarity flips to run motors the other direction.

Oddly I wrote this refering to the wiring diagram, best to check by working from the bottom up.

Every time I get into the complexity of this it is quite apparent as to why it was one year only. I've heard the first thing a dealer had to do when a '67 RS arrived was troubleshoot the headlight doors.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MLakin,