#4 of 4-- Here's the mixed results part. The TEXTURE on this stuff (according to the recipe) came out like about 120-grit sandpaper. The texture on the car itself was much smoother, it definitely had texture, but it was more like 600-to 800-grit sandpaper.

I have a call in to the paint jobber to see what suggestions they can offer.

Folks-- any feedback on this?? Would you expect the texture to come out that coarse?? And/or is my sample car maybe an anomaly in that the texture is much finer?? help...

Charley,
I think what you described sounds perfect. Kind of smooth to the touch, but yet still visible to the naked eye! Your photo looks great!

quote:

Originally posted by Tom McGinnity:
I would love to see some clear closeups of your dash top sample

Hope this pic will oblige...

Coming up for air now I see that several folks have been responding already... Really appreciate the inputs. I am perplexed by this issue with the dash top texture. Interesting to see the pictures from Tom D.; those look like a much coarser texture closer to that of my paint sample...

quote:

Originally posted by Tom D:
Charley,
I think what you described sounds perfect. Kind of smooth to the touch, but yet still visible to the naked eye! Your photo looks great!

Tom many thanks. A clarifying question: Are you saying the 120-grit (approx) texture is more correct, or the 600-800-grit texture?

Charley,
From what I remember when I took those pictures the texture felt more like 600-800 grit. The pictures I took were very close up so it looks a little deceiving and more coarse, but it is not. Your paint samples look outstanding!

So this is my 04A Festival Norwood Ohio car. Now looking at it with my eyes I chose to put the yellow tape to show where the top paint and the dash front paint collide.. I thought it would not show up well in the photo! BUT the photo actually emphasized the difference much to my surprise. Now I can say that looking at my dash top with the naked eye it really doesn't look that much different.. But the picture with the flash tells another story. Please note my dash is pretty beat but the under dash area is fine

Another angle.. Notice the difference between mine and Tom D's black dash.. His I believe is the way Chevy intended and mine is of much lesser quality. Mine looks like a dry lacquer paint spot repair that would need to be high speed buffed where as Toms look like that Hammertone Paint they sell that purposely wrinkles. The variances are pretty great with this area Charley

By the way.. the underneath of the top windshield frame has exposed metal remaining after the top chrome is installed and I think the suede paint was shot into that area as well. We should explore this assertion. Whatever it does turn out to be it will be either dash front or dash top color

Tom many thanks. A clarifying question: Are you saying the 120-grit (approx) texture is more correct, or the 600-800-grit texture?[/QUOTE]

Charely,
I just noticed something in one of your pictures that might help out. I would compare the top of the dash texture to that of the inside of the dash cluster where the speedometer is. It is also a non reflective surface. If you feel and look at that texture it would be the close to the same as the dash top.

Tom M: I'd say the pictures of your dash above look nearly identical to that of my coupe (only cleaner!). This is suggesting to me that the much finer texture is more correct. I think Tom D. was also saying the same thing a couple posts ago.

Again, I was trying to liken the textures to a sandpaper equivalent for comparison... I'm confident the 600 to 800 grit number is a pretty accurate comparison because I stopped in at a paint shop yesterday, immediately after looking at the car, to touch-test actual sandpaper.

Is there anybody else who has original dash tops who can help provide some input on this??

Thanks guys...

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P.S. With my photo editor I was able to blow up one of my pictures into extreme close-up... here it is:

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Charley Maule,

Founds this.. thought for a laugh you would enjoy seeing how bad one of the pints I had mixed came out.. correct formula..human error?. It was a rough ride getting it correct

Charley, the "appearance" of texture is actually the metallic particles in the paint. In both "flat" and "semi-gloss" finishes the "gloss resins" that create full gloss paint are subdued by a flattener. It creates the "appearance" of texture but should actually be smooth to the touch.

You have a point but I think the sueded aspect is special. Its something you need to see with your own eyes to grasp. I've flattened many paints with flattening agent but it never created the sueded look. theres more to the equation I think

The formula for the #13217 (Ditzler/PPG) Dark Bright Blue sample includes an additive called Suede. I'm told by the paint jobber it produces a chemical reaction with the paint giving it the rough texture. I remember when I painted my touch up samples several weeks ago, it came out of the bottle liquid & smooth, but started to bubble Wrinkle up almost immediately after application.

The problem we seem to be having is getting the texture right. The mix they mixed up (following the formula) resulted in a texture like 120-grit sandpaper. My sample car had a dash top texture that felt more like 600-800-grit sandpaper.

Paint jobber suggested we trial & error with reduced proportions of the suede to see if that produced the desired results (meaning need to buy who-knows-how-many more samples of paint).

Have to discuss this with my painter... i think they are wondering why I can't give them a straight answer what blue colors to use...

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Edited 1/1/13 (Happy New Year everybody!):

Spoke again to the paint jobber yesterday. He corrected a misunderstanding I had from previous conversations. He explained the Suede additive actually does contain a fine grit texture you can feel with your fingers. I asked him about the metallic tints (there are 2 in the formula) and he said these do not contain or contribute to the texture, it is just from the suede.

Also I spoke to the painter yesterday. He clarified the sample they painted had multiple layers of paint to give full coverage-- possibly the very rough texture of the sample was cumulative buildup from multiple layers.

Jobber suggested the maybe the paint could be sprayed wetter which maybe might give a better result? ...but painter didn't think this would make much difference.

Next steps at this point are to get some more paint with reduced proportion of the suede additive, & try again.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Charley Maule,

Blue Paint-- Chapter 3—Dash Top:
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(Apologies in advance-- I took copious pictures from today's adventures, but when uploading these to the computer I found nearly all were corrupted. So this will be a mostly verbal update)

Considering the results I’ve described above—- Probably I should start by summarizing the goal of this effort; i.e. to replicate the original appearance texture—- taking for granted we have already matched color using the #13217 formula. At this point we’re thinking we may be on to something, although the approach described below is somewhat unorthodox…

I inspected 3 different 1967’s today at Arizona Camaro Restoration (one of which was my own 732-Z coupe), all with original appearing dash tops. All 3 cars had a similar “feel” although in 3 different colors: very mildly textured with a nearly-but-not-quite-smooth feel-- not at all “gritty” or sandpaper-like.

The problem we experienced with the #13217 formula (Suede included) was it sprayed up with a coarse sandpaper-like texture, which I described previously as resembling 120-grit sandpaper.

This morning I obtained another batch of the #13217 Dark Bright Blue dash top paint; but with the suede additive reduced by 50% with the objective of reducing texture. Painters sprayed up another sample for me, but upon inspection we decided the texture of the second sample did not appreciably differ from the original (pictured above).

Justin at the paint shop came up with an idea: He lightly wet-sanded our original sample with 1500 grit cloth. This greatly reduced the highs and sharp sandpaper-like feel, while still leaving some discernible texture. In terms of appearance it did not differ noticeably from the original sample. It was still kind of blotchy and textured-looking. But the texture itself was much smoother to the touch.

Comparing this to my sample car the textures felt very similar-- close enough to be passable. We now are thinking (and going to try) sanding-down the suede paint, then top-coating with the #13217 color but mixed up without the suede, with the objective of creating a more even finish without the blotchy look. The topcoat will require flattener due to omission of the suede.

We’ll see how this looks sometime next week… Feedback anyone??