Rick, I tested my paint awhile back and it is lacquer. My pace car is 04A Bob T

04-C build Lacquer paint Trunk lid underside used for research.

03-C Enamel Paint Trunk lid used for research

Mr. Bevers using Lacquer thinner on the underside of the enamel trunk lid to no effect.

A recent mix of Fleet 8080 against the vintage 1967 paint chip

Ermine White against the Ivory chip in the truck line. Ivory is a direct cross to Ermine White for 1967

Fleet white and Ermine White jobber mixes (not Infra red scans) against the 03-C Trunk lid used in the research. This is the brite appearing lid with the blue tape on it.

Phil,

Are those paint samples against the 03C trunk dry or wet? If their wet I'm thinking the color might be a little different once its dry.

Have you been able to do Infra Red scans of paint below the windshield pillars, upper windshield chrome or under the doornobs (like Tom's #78/04A) on 04A or later 0-1 cars.

I expect these surfaces (never in contact with light and somewhat protected) should be much better or closer to original paint then the underside of trunk lids, etc.

I'm sure you probably already did/considered this, but wanted to throw that out just in-case...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <RickDawn67>,

Phil,
Are you saying ditzler ermine 8259 passenger car color was the same formula as truck code 528, ditzler paint number 8290 in 1967? The formulas were the same, yet 2 different numbers?

quote:

Originally posted by RickDawn67:
Phil,

Are those paint samples against the 03C trunk dry or wet? If their wet I'm thinking the color might be a little different once its dry.

Have you been able to do Infra Red scans of paint below the windshield pillars, upper windshield chrome or under the doornobs (like Tom's #78/04A) on 04A or later 0-1 cars.

I expect these surfaces (never in contact with light and somewhat protected) should be much better or closer to original paint then the underside of trunk lids, etc.

I'm sure you probably already did/considered this, but wanted to throw that out just in-case...

Paint-All Dry. Tom Sent me a Spray out from his car. Which I shot Color and tint Match.

I am just getting back on line violent storms here....

quote:

Originally posted by 1967 RS SS:
Phil,
Are you saying ditzler ermine 8259 passenger car color was the same formula as truck code 528, ditzler paint number 8290 in 1967? The formulas were the same, yet 2 different numbers?

Ivory is the same color and crosses to Ermine in 1967 GM also called it Arctic White in the Buick line.

Formula's listed below are for Ermine in both Enamel and Lacquer.

I do appreciate the attention this thread has gotten from you guys. Since a picture is generally worth more than paragraphs of debate I decided to post some for you tonight. I have More photos - but I think these will be effective in assisting many of you who have questions.

I also clearly see that the Fleet White Paint debate is alive and well - and the photos posted tonight should be productive for most of you.

Pertaining to Fleet White, - here are the Original 1967 formula's for 8080.

They made it in both Lacquer and Enamel in 1967.

Lacquer Mix
716 White
735 India Blue
715 Black

Enamel Mix
940 Pure White
933 Pure Blue
901 Black


.Also here is the mixes for 1967 Ermine White - also availible in both Lacquer and Enamel

Lacquer Mix
716 White
787 PS Tint Oxide Yellow
788 PS tint Black

Enamel
940 Pure White
953 PS Oxide Yellow
954 PS Black

What is missing from each and every Infra red Scan from the IPC control group?

The Blue. There is none detected in our control group and no blue specified in the original 1967 mix of Ermine White either.

As you know (if you read the original 0-1 paint thread) I loyally stayed the course, and in the end it was Tony that did an optical scan of Fleet White using a dupont IR camera on what he called a "sun damaged sample" from his own pick up truck.

Despite the degraded condition of the sample, the camera detected the presence of blue tint with the dupont tint name provided as "perminant Blue"

Fleet White as a paint mix requires Blue tint to be "Fleet White".

No Blue tint was ever detected in any of the IPC control group samples analyzed.

I am not making a dime off of the research I have completed. I am not planning to write a book nor make any money off of this research. In fact I have spent quite a bit of my time and treasure with the outcome being a simple confirmation of the accepted notion that the Pace cars were painted Ermine White in 1967.

Thankfully the Clear Coat Myth has been removed for good.

If you own a Pace car and you want to paint it Fleet White - have a ball! In the end it is your car and in the end it is still white.

In closing here is another photo of the the IPC Control group samples. They were all reproduced from Infra red scans alongside a jobber mix of Ermine White. Again the Photo should help in the understanding of these complex issues being discussed here without my having to spend hours typing techno babble.

There is plenty of that in the 0-1 Paint thread. (20 pages to be exact)

Phil,
Going with this, the trucks were not bright white, but ivory? I know you haven't the exact answer, but why would you think or venture to guess why the 04A and later produced festival cars were not code C-1, as there would have been nothing special about the paint, just ermine lacquer?

Phil, Tony, Tom.Vi, Andy, John
And everyone else who has partaken in this.
Wow, Has anyone on thie Internet ever taken this amount of time to dissolve these mistery's
I have never seen one quite like this.
this proves that the pace car trust is endeavered to finding the truth, while it is still available.
As I stand here doing nothing. It is unbelievable the generousity that encompasses me and the fortitude to find answers that were once so seemingly irrelevant to the most common author.
I salute to you all

quote:

Originally posted by 1967 RS SS:
Phil,
Going with this, the trucks were not bright white, but ivory? I know you haven't the exact answer, but why would you think or venture to guess why the 04A and later produced festival cars were not code C-1, as there would have been nothing special about the paint, just ermine lacquer?

Steve,

Trucks were Fleet White, and that is consistant with Tony's IR camera result.

Camaros were Ermine with the special prep as outlined in part # 3 of this thread.

Ermine in 1967 crosses throughout GM as follows in 1967:

Buick Arctic White "C"
Cadillac Grecian White "12"
Chevrolet Ermine White "C"
Corvette Ermine White "972"
Olds Provincial White "C"
Pontiac Cameo Ivory "C"
Fleet/Commercial Ivory "1735"

There were also several different sub grades of paint pre-mixed for purchase by refinishers. They are as follows:

Class "A" New Production
Class "B" Match. "means use for panel repair ond overall refinishing only.
Class "C" Match. "Commercial Match for overall refinishing only"

The Class system was cheaper paint mixes. Class "B" was for the Standart repaint, and Class "C" is what was used for the $100.00 Earl Scheib paint jobs, and to repaint a commercial vehicle.

This likely explains why the color tint and quailty varied so much on the repaints of the day - and in the early years of the 1970's.