As some of you may know I purchased a clone last year , however I still have a desire to own a real BB pacer. I have found one I am very interested in, however I am looking for some of your input on this one before I committ.Any of your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I have some concerns with it being a 4P 396 car and is this the type of "Real" car that would qualify in the Medalion program ? The car is at www.fraserdante.com

Thanks in advance....Dwayne

isn't a 4p car built 04c a little late for a l78? i thought that the l78 and 4p were late march-early april and then they started using 4k? i forget what the date was when gm started using 4k.

I use to live near Fraser Dante and they always seem to have allot of PC's for some reason. They were given my # from the body shop that had my car at the time. They tried to by our 69 from us and got nasty with me over the phone because I refused to sell. Not a big fan of the dealership because of this incident. Be cautious when going into a sale with them or anybody as far as that goes when dealing with a specialty car such as this one. Continue doing what your doing and ask a ton of questions on this board. I’m sure these guys will guide you in the right direction.

Tom

Thanks guys, they seem to be very helpfull and are showing alot of documentation with the 2 judging sheets being the highlights from the Camaro Nationals, however that was almost 10 years ago, I'm sure alot more is known about these cars now due to you guys

Do any of you 396 owners have a P code, As their sheet indicates 1 in 4 have P codes ?

charlie lilliard's car, the original pace car that paced the race was a 4p 375hp car which had a 350hp installed before the race by gm engineering. he has since sold it.

quote:

Originally posted by GDLV Camaro:
As some of you may know I purchased a clone last year , however I still have a desire to own a real BB pacer. I have found one I am very interested in, however I am looking for some of your input on this one before I committ.Any of your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I have some concerns with it being a 4P 396 car and is this the type of "Real" car that would qualify in the Medalion program ? The car is at www.fraserdante.com

Thanks in advance....Dwayne

I flew to Florida before this car (the L78 for sale at Fraser) was returned to the auction house by another prior purchaser who bought the car on the assumption it was a confirmed L78 Pace Car to try and authenticate the car as A. A real Pace Car and B. As a real L78 convertible. The short story for this car sadly is that it cannot be 100% confirmed as either as both the VIN and trim tag for the car had been removed and replaced with reproductions during restoration according to a previous owner. The previous owner did admit to keeping the original tags he says came off of this body when confronted with the attached tags being fakes and they were forwarded to the auction buyer after a good deal of wrangling. When the car was returned to the auction house as un-verifiable they were returned with it. The upper cowl hidden VIN was not visible and after removing the paint was still not able to be found. After not being able to find the upper hidden VIN and with the cowl tag and VIN tag attached to the car being found to be reproductions it was not attempted to get to the blower motor VIN as the then owner did not want to risk damaging the paint on the car. Even if the lower hidden VIN was able to be matched to the VIN number attached to the car currently the car still cannot be 100% verified as a Pace Car as the cowl tag was removed from the car and the removal and replacement was not properly documented so we cannot say the tag definitely came off of that car or another one with a VIN in the neighborhood. Also certain during restoration photos raised a couple of questions as to the originality of the body or at a minimum parts of the firewall. On top of that the engine and trans had both been restamped and the stamp on the rear axle had been tampered with based on appearance. Rather than ramble on suffice it to say that the car had many more question marks at the time and after an inspection report was written the previous owner of the car before the auction agreed to take the car back and then offered it for sale again at auction as a clone where it later sold. This report is currently not being mentioned on the Fraser website and their documentation for the cars authenticity that they are referring to seems to be a bit lacking, actually I did not see any at all during the inspection process in 2010.

On a lighter note, the car was and likely still is after a new paint job a beautiful example of a 1967 Camaro convertible and anyone not worrying about pedigree should be glad to drive it, just not at an exaggerated price tag. The transmission did stick a bit on one of the gears driving it though. Some of the photos that I took during the inspection including the detached VIN and Trim Tag can be found at the following link-

Cars Registry Entry

This message has been edited. Last edited by: L78conv,

WOW ! So this is why I Love and Hate this 67 Pace Car World. Love all the details/stories and knowledge you guys have on this site. Hate how over the last 10 years as I've attempted to try and own a "Real" BB there has been so many questions and half-truths the frustration is massive. Once again I'm back to thinking my clone with no questions of what it is, may be just the best way to go......so today I'll drop the top and go for a cruz.....

BTW....Thanks Mike for your latest post and informing me with what you know....I can't say it made my day, that's for sure....however knowledge is power and hopefully I can continue my search and one day find what I'm looking for.

No problem, sorry to hurt your hopes but the right car I am sure is still out there for you, it is just a matter of time until you find it. For now, better informed than misinformed. Until the right one comes along just keep enjoying what you have!

got to find those old fellas thats owned the car forever so u know your getting the true story and history..

I agree with Mike.. I know the car came from the Indy area when new and I know the old tags look legit.. Its rediculous that someone hasn't taken the heater box out yet to confirm the body.. If that gets done then the car is in my mind a legit Pacecar.. The 375hp thing is a whole notha' story but the one guy that may have the answer is Matt Murphy.. The story goes that the fellow that built this car was told by Matt that it was a 375hp.. Now the question is WHY did Matt say this? What did the car have still on it when it was a ****box that prompted Matt to make that statement IF he ever did make that statement at all.. I would trust Matts word but I cannot find the dude these days to ask him
Also: I think the fellow that restored the cars primary focus at the time was to " create " a perfect car for judging.. thats fine I suppose and he did accomplish his goal.. the thing that is unfortunate is that to that end he created a car that is completely and utterly restamped.. purists frown on that now... oh well

The car looks amazing and is gorgeous... the guy that buys the car and succeeds to put all the puzzle pieces back together will be the winner

PS. Mike your website is amazing and now I remember you left me a message a while back and I did not return the call. sorry dude! try me again

How much are they asking for the car?

Thanks, Tom still a long long way to go but slowly getting there bit by bit. Will get hold of you when I have some free time.

They are asking $77,500 for the car. A bit high in my opinion or an incredible steal if the car were in fact what they claim it to be and could be proven as such. The old tags are real, just cannot with the exception of the VIN if they pulled the blower motor and hidden VIN exists be proven to have come from that car or not.