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I have Invited Mark C of the CRG to the Norwood Panel discussion
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Victory Lane
Picture of festival
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Mark says he is "Not a Believer"

He is invited...

http://www.camaros.org/forum/i...?topic=10038.new#new


Phil@camaropacecars.com
 
Posts: 4608 | Location: Chillicothe Ohio | Registered: 05 May 2005Report This Post
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Victory Lane
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If he's not gonna bring an open mind then remind him to bring a crying towel


tom @ camaropacecars.com ( remove the space between m,@,c)
 
Posts: 13013 | Location: Arlington Mass | Registered: 01 May 2005Report This Post
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Victory Lane
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The CRG wouldn't show on bet.. it'll crush the years and years of hardline sh it they've been spewing.. shall I post Gary's car pictures now or save it for later roll


tom @ camaropacecars.com ( remove the space between m,@,c)
 
Posts: 13013 | Location: Arlington Mass | Registered: 01 May 2005Report This Post
Victory Lane
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Lets not run up the score. The CRG has some people that have a variety of personalities. I think the group is a valued part of the hobby.

Lets see what direction this goes. Plenty of time to work issues as they develop. Cheers


Phil@camaropacecars.com
 
Posts: 4608 | Location: Chillicothe Ohio | Registered: 05 May 2005Report This Post
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Victory Lane
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No score.. just years of rediculousness


tom @ camaropacecars.com ( remove the space between m,@,c)
 
Posts: 13013 | Location: Arlington Mass | Registered: 01 May 2005Report This Post
Victory Lane
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I guarantee there will be a chair saved for Mark.. The retirees are watching his replies and they are rolling roll They cannot wait to meet him in person.

It will be exciting for Mark to discover that the production processes had real human variables that included the painting of a trim tag where there is no logical CRG style process explanation.

It is what it is and complicated it is not. Cheers


Phil@camaropacecars.com
 
Posts: 4608 | Location: Chillicothe Ohio | Registered: 05 May 2005Report This Post
Victory Lane
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I suppose that this is one of those things that you can chose to get it "right" or just not worry about it. (and be accepted as correct either way, as long as there is proof for individual cars)

I have a photo of an original paint car that kinda blows away the "67 only" theory. I went to an auction where there was advertised a 68 396/375 camaro. I was hoping that it was a plain jane with my missing original engine installed in it. But,no luck. It was a real 68 L78 car in need of total restoration. Here is a photo for all the naysayers. Andy Varhola

 
Posts: 537 | Location: Southeast Ohio | Registered: 01 March 2007Report This Post
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Victory Lane
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I've read the book. I wish to say that I think the book was written quite well, not pro union or pro company. That alone would be a difficult task to pull off, in my opinion. My feeling from reading the book is that it started out with meeting some retirees and then turned into a labour of love, in the form of a book. I'd think people from the line who worked there for years would have some great info to share and I think knowing Phil that his research would be double checked, if not triple checked, before going to print.
I think there will be numerous people who for whatever reason don't want to believe some of the points in the book. But I doubt those same people have the desire to spend the same amount of time Phil did to prove it wrong.
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: Southern Ontario, Canada | Registered: 13 May 2005Report This Post
Victory Lane
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David, Tom and Andy,

Things have calmed down a bit over there. That is a good thing for the hobby... Cheers


Phil@camaropacecars.com
 
Posts: 4608 | Location: Chillicothe Ohio | Registered: 05 May 2005Report This Post
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Victory Lane
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Kurt looks less than cooperative to me right now to be honest


tom @ camaropacecars.com ( remove the space between m,@,c)
 
Posts: 13013 | Location: Arlington Mass | Registered: 01 May 2005Report This Post
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Victory Lane
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These guys don't live far from Ohio.. Why they don't " table " this discussion until everyone is finally in the same room is a mystery to me.. John Z should be standing there that evening with the welcome mat.. Why he hasn't shown is also confounding.. I'm sure there is an answer I just can not fathom it at this point.. If its a money thing we could start a collection


tom @ camaropacecars.com ( remove the space between m,@,c)
 
Posts: 13013 | Location: Arlington Mass | Registered: 01 May 2005Report This Post
Victory Lane
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Yea... I know. What a bunch of hard heads...

Looks like it is all done for now. We are at an impasse as they want me to post and discuss portions of the book and its content for free roll which is obviously a complete conflict of interest.

I simply cannot do that to myself or my vendors who are or will soon be selling the book.

In summary So the OP a guy named XP836 starts saying positive things about the book - and things go downhill from there. That will teach anyone form the group to get out of line that is for sure.

The CRG Leadership is apparently rejecting the original source which is the Norwood Plant workforce. Here is a quote from one of the men that was especially poignant: "The only way to fix a crooked foundation is to bust major portions of the concrete out and start over. They are too proud to do that"

I mean if you examine a data based model used by the CRG- where you have to develop an explanation for this and that-- you write technical papers that are set in cement explaining the various this and that's-- then it is hard to extract yourself from the cement once it has set up.

Sad... I will waste no more time on these guys unless the attitude changes which I doubt it will.


Phil@camaropacecars.com
 
Posts: 4608 | Location: Chillicothe Ohio | Registered: 05 May 2005Report This Post

Victory Lane
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quote:
Originally posted by festival:

I mean if you examine a data based model used by the CRG-...


You mean the incredibly definitive data on a massively overwhelming 2% of 220,906 Camaros produced, or the data on "think we have 60-70% of the assumed 130 total '67 pace cars"? Let's see 2% of 220,906, that's 4,418 cars. How anyone can make the carved-in-stone statements and conclusions they make on such an incredibly small sample base is beyond me.

Edit: Think of it another way:2% of 220906 = ~4418 = 216,488 "possibilities."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MLakin,


Mike L.
 
Posts: 2487 | Location: Indy | Registered: 20 September 2005Report This Post
Victory Lane
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Tom

John Z has just inserted himself into the discussion- so you are free to begin the disassembly of the CRG -- why not start with all of the errors in the so called assembly paper that the CRG has posted that John created "because he was there". roll

Talk about being situationally unaware....


Phil@camaropacecars.com
 
Posts: 4608 | Location: Chillicothe Ohio | Registered: 05 May 2005Report This Post
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Victory Lane
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Phil, I just wanted to say that I've loaned my copy of the "Echoes of Norwood" to someone who works at the Oakville, Ont, Ford plant. He has worked there for years and despite the book being GM, or Norwood Plant specific, as a line worker he asked to borrow it to read.
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: Southern Ontario, Canada | Registered: 13 May 2005Report This Post
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Camaro Pace Cars .Com    My Forum Home Page    All Years Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  1967 Pace Car  Hop To Forums  1967 Lounge    I have Invited Mark C of the CRG to the Norwood Panel discussion