I am attempting to try to understand the paperwork which went along with a new car as well as the ordering system and the paperwork which also went along with it all. Whilst I am interested in specifically the 67 IPC. At this stage I dont have any specific 67 stuff or IPC stuff , so here is a 69 shipper docket. Notice on this the last part of the VIN is stamped in later. I also do not see a body number on this sheet. The dealer order number is on it as well as the I.D. No. What is the ID no? I do not see a GM Factory to dealer invoice number. How does this paperwork tie in with the GM factory Invoice , the build sheet , the Dealer order form? Feel free to point out anything I have missed or to post more relevant 67 paperwork.

Obviously it would be better to look at a complete set of such paperwork all associated to one car. Anyone have any? Doesnt need to be a 67 IPC or even a 67 Camaro for that matter either,.

I have all kinds of crap in my files but nothing together.. Do you think it would be a good idea to list all the paperwork that would have been generated from beginning to end and then post an example of each? that might be fun. I guess the first thing would be the dealer order form? I'd like to know how they told GM they had a fresh order? was it by mail? they didn't have faxes so ?

The last bit i suppose would be the shipper invoice? or the dealers invoice?

Tom your right lets start at the beginning. I guess the first question is how were the required cars put into the GM system? Is there an explanation of the COPO ordering process around? Or were the required cars simply ordered like any other 67 Camaro at the time on the standard ordering form? If we are going to look into this process are we going to concentrate initially on the 43 commitment cars? Obviously from all that we now know the 43 commitment cars were originally the property of GM but used by the Speedway and many other non GM users. Then we have the 10 blue top zone cars , originally the property of GM and used by GM. The same or different ordering process? What was the ordering process for GM executive cars or demo type cars? Mike Rossie may know the answer to this last question as he did own a couple of GM Executive cars?? Anyone know or have any documentation to show the procedures?

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Smith:
I am attempting to try to understand the paperwork which went along with a new car as well as the ordering system and the paperwork which also went along with it all. Whilst I am interested in specifically the 67 IPC. At this stage I dont have any specific 67 stuff or IPC stuff , so here is a 69 shipper docket. Notice on this the last part of the VIN is stamped in later. I also do not see a body number on this sheet. The dealer order number is on it as well as the I.D. No. What is the ID no? I do not see a GM Factory to dealer invoice number. How does this paperwork tie in with the GM factory Invoice , the build sheet , the Dealer order form? Feel free to point out anything I have missed or to post more relevant 67 paperwork.

The last six digits of the VIN were rubber-stamped on the paperwork at the end of the Final Line; the package (window sticker and Car Shipper) were computer-printed several days before the car was built, so the last six digits of the VIN weren't known at that time.

For '69 only, the Ident Number was the same as the "Body" number on the cowl tag; it was assigned by the plant when the plant accepted the dealer order for production (not when the car was actually built). Prior to '69, the Ident Number was assigned the same way, but wasn't on the cowl tag; for all years, it was the computer link to the detailed specs for that particular car on the dealer order, which is why it appears on every piece of paper, including the Body and Chassis Broadcast copies.

The Dealer Wholesale Invoice wasn't created and mailed to the dealer until the day after the car was actually shipped, so that invoice number was unknown when the paperwork package was printed or when the car was shipped.

Hey John thanks for responding. Can I ask you to ballpark for us as many pieces of paper that were generated during the cars build that you can remember? You'd know a hell of a lot better than I..

Can you tell me how the factory got the word that a new car was to be built? What did the dealer actually do once the customer left the dealership and the saleman submitted his paperwork to the boss? Did it go through the Zone office first? Did they physically mail these forms? They certainly didn't call them in and faxes and email ... well, you get my point..

Can you give us a rough cronological order of the paperwork generation from then until the Delaer was invoiced?

I bet they did wait until the day after the car was shipped to bill the car out.. I'm sure it was just like today where the dealer had to pay interest on the monies owed GM for these cars if they didn't pay in a timely fashion so GM didn't bill until they knew the bill would meet the car at the dealership.

Geoff: I would guess that the ZONE at Indy ordered those black nosed blue toppers like any other car at all and just put the stickers on. I would also venture to guess that the COPO side of the Pace Cars was for the O-1's.. I bet the C-1's were part of the dealer promotion even though it was seemingly limited to region. I bet the big boys set up the O-1 cars build ( corporate & advertising etc etc ) and then thats when the C-1's came into play to offer them up to dealers.. for lack of a better word.. a less complex or cared about venture. It still doesn't help explain the need for the O-1 code definitively though... mystery mystery mystery

John , Thanks for your input. So the only common thing with ALL of the paperwork is the Ident Number. You say in 69 it was the same as the body number. Can you please explain how it differed in 67 as I don't quite get your explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Smith:
John , Thanks for your input. So the only common thing with ALL of the paperwork is the Ident Number. You say in 69 it was the same as the body number. Can you please explain how it differed in 67 as I don't quite get your explanation.

The dealer submitted the Dealer Order Form to the Zone, where it was edited for mistakes and forwarded to Chevrolet-Central Office in Detroit.

Central Office edited the order again for any short-term restrictions and sent it to the plant selected to build it.

The plant received the order, accepted it, and assigned the Ident Number to that particular Dealer Order.

The plant confirmed to Central Office that they had accepted the order, with a projected build date, and the order was entered into the Procurement database to order the parts required for that particular car.

Central Office sent an IBM card to the dealer confirming the order, style, and options, with the projected build date and Ident Number.

The plant scheduled the order for production, assigned the Body Number, created the cowl tag, and printed the paperwork package (window sticker and Car Shipper), minus the last six digits of the VIN (which wasn't known or assigned yet).

Fisher built, painted, and trimmed the body shell and shipped it through the wall to Chevrolet.

Chevrolet received the body, took the Body Number and entered it in their computer, which referenced back to the dealer order specs and assigned the VIN number; that file generated the Chevrolet Body Broadcast Copy and the Chassis Broadcast Copy, which were printed throughout the Chevrolet side of the plant as the body shell was released from the end of the Chevrolet body schedule bank and locked in sequence on the line.

The car was built to the Broadcast Copy specs, and the engine/transmission/axle numbers were sent to the end of the Final Line.

When the car got to the end of the Final Line, the last six digits of the VIN were rubber-stamped on the window sticker and Car Shipper, and the clerk created the Protect-O-Plate with the full VIN, color, trim, engine/trans/axle numbers and date of production. The sticker went on the window, the Car Shipper went in the glove box, and the P-O-P was affixed to the warranty folder and went in the glove box.

When the car was shipped, the Dealer Wholesale Invoice was computer-created and mailed to the dealer.

John,

I'd like to know more about what the zone offices did. What was it's functions? I had two zone cars at one time, what can you tell me about employee cars...how they could be ordered (i.e. options, etc.), how employees were able to purchase them, time in service as a GM car, etc.

Thanks,
Mike

John, very interesting read, thanks.

John.. pretty sweet

Makes bigtime sense that the Zone had to approve the cars.. I suspect salemen often jumbled things etc during the ordering process ( it ain't easy dealing with the public ). I'm also assuming they did all this through the mail and thats why they sent the return confirmations all the time so people knew it was " in the pipeline " ( no wonder the Post Office is broke now )

The person making the POP had a pressure job.. probably more than one person with that kind of volume?

How did they send the driveline info? Notepad? blank form sheets? Did they attach them to the body or walk them down through the plant?

The car shipper is a carbon of the window sticker The ( ID No ) on the shipper and window sticker is the Dealers ID. Phillips Chevrolet company is dealer #260884. In 1972 wehad lady in the office who typed little holes in a 1 in ribbon of paper could this be how the orders were placed ???

when I checked in new cars for Anthony Chevrolet I also marked the key codes off the keys onto the shipper and gave it an inventory # before giving it and one set keys to the office. The other set were taged and hung on a board off the Showroom Floor after it was parked in the back lot. Some salesman would think if he had the keys he could hold the car for his buyer sometimes it worked sometimes it did not

quote:

Originally posted by L181A L35:
John,

I'd like to know more about what the zone offices did. What was it's functions? I had two zone cars at one time, what can you tell me about employee cars...how they could be ordered (i.e. options, etc.), how employees were able to purchase them, time in service as a GM car, etc.

Thanks,
Mike

The Zone Offices were the connection between the dealers and Detroit for sales, marketing, service, etc., and the regional point of contact for public relations and community activities.

The Zone Manager and Zone Service Manager were provided company cars as part of their job - they ordered what they wanted, drove them 3,000 miles, turned them in, and ordered another one. Employees could buy them at turn-in at a substantial discount - otherwise they went to wholesale auction or dealers bought them for resale, usually advertised as "factory official's cars". Some Zones maintained a small fleet of cars for visiting VIP's, media folks, etc.

quote:

The person making the POP had a pressure job.. probably more than one person with that kind of volume?

How did they send the driveline info? Notepad? blank form sheets? Did they attach them to the body or walk them down through the plant?

There were two guys in the "Broadcast Booth" at the end of the line that handled the paperwork packages and each had an Addressograph machine to create the P-O-P's.

The inspectors at the end of the Engine Dress Line and the Chassis Line manually wrote the engine/transmission/axle numbers on a Broadcast Copy and placed it in a tray; once an hour or so a "runner" from the Broadcast Booth came by on a scooter and collected them and took them to the end of the line. That gave the guys in the booth about two hours of lead time to organize the paperwork, stamp the VIN, and create the P-O-P before the car got to the end of the line.

quote:

Originally posted by #57:
The car shipper is a carbon of the window sticker The ( ID No ) on the shipper and window sticker is the Dealers ID. Phillips Chevrolet company is dealer #260884. In 1972 wehad lady in the office who typed little holes in a 1 in ribbon of paper could this be how the orders were placed ???

The I.D. # (Ident Number) wasn't the zone/dealer number. The dealer number was five digits (two for the zone, a space, and three for the dealer), usually seen to the left of the dealer's name and address on the paperwork. The Ident Number was six digits, and was different for every car (it was assigned by the plant when they accepted the dealer order for production - it was the plant's only way to track the car until the VIN was assigned, and was printed at the top right corner of the window sticker and Car Shipper).

The paper ribbon may have been used to teleprocess data to the Zone or to Central Office; I'm not familiar with how the ordering system worked after 1970. Prior to 1970, it was strictly a paper system, with the dealer order form mailed to the Zone.

Damn... thats cool

John,

Back in the day, if someone from a Zone office that would be dealing with the Van Nuys plant were to desire an option such as a 427 or M22 in a '67 Camaro, could they pull it off? Keep in mind the Van Nuys line had passenger cars that had these options.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by L181A L35:
John,

Back in the day, if someone from a Zone office that would be dealing with the Van Nuys plant were to desire an option such as a 427 or M22 in a '67 Camaro, could they pull it off? Keep in mind the Van Nuys line had passenger cars that had these options.

Mike

Nope, not without Engineering and Central Office approval; that's what the COPO system was for. If parts weren't released specifically for usage in a Camaro, the plant had no authority to substitute them.

Is there any truth to the line guys adding options to cars they know their friends ordered? I bet not

This thread has been very interesting as well as educational. Is anyone able to elaborate on how the numbering of the dealer order number breaks down? In this case the number of the order above is NCH399 11. Is there any connections between the dealer order number and the GM Factory to Dealer Invoice number? What format did the GM Factory Invoice number take and is there a break down available of it? Thanks to everyone involved , your input is greatly appreciated guys.

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Smith:
This thread has been very interesting as well as educational. Is anyone able to elaborate on how the numbering of the dealer order number breaks down? In this case the number of the order above is NCH399 11. Is there any connections between the dealer order number and the GM Factory to Dealer Invoice number? What format did the GM Factory Invoice number take and is there a break down available of it? Thanks to everyone involved , your input is greatly appreciated guys.

There is no logic or breakdown for the Dealer Order Number - it was pre-printed on the order form, and they came in pads supplied by Chevrolet. There was also no connection between the Dealer Order Number and the Dealer Wholesale Invoice number.

Typical Dealer Wholesale Invoice shown below for a late Norwood '69 shipped to California; the dealer order number is in the left column, the invoice number is at the top right and bottom right, and the Ident Number is at the lower left.

John , Thanks for posting the copy of the invoice. Is the 67 version virtually the same? Is there any breakdown of the invoice number available? These invoice numbers are consecutive if from the same zone? L = Los Angeles? N = Norwood? and a continuous running number starting at 1 and rising?

It is interesting to see a Norwood built car shipped to San Francisco. Did this happen often?

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Smith:
John , Thanks for posting the copy of the invoice. Is the 67 version virtually the same? Is there any breakdown of the invoice number available? These invoice numbers are consecutive if from the same zone? L = Los Angeles? N = Norwood? and a continuous running number starting at 1 and rising?

It is interesting to see a Norwood built car shipped to San Francisco. Did this happen often?

The first character in the invoice number indicates the Chevrolet Financial office that issued it; the numbers are probably sequential, but nobody knows for sure. The wholesale dealer invoice format didn't change from '66 to '70.

Late '69 Norwood cars shipped to California are pretty common, as Van Nuys went out on strike in late April of '69 and came back to work in late June/early July for a week, only long enough to clean out the system of 69's (about 1000 units), then shut down for the rest of the model year. Norwood was the only source of Camaros (and Firebirds) from late April until the extended 1969 model year ended in November.

quote:

I'd like to know how they told GM they had a fresh order? was it by mail? they didn't have faxes so ?

Well I do believe, back in the day they had what you would call, tele-type